How To Build Trust In A Relationship With Gay Kelso

Transcript

Speaker 1

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Speaker 2

In today's episode of make love, not war. We interview gay Kelso. She's an expert in how to build trust in a relationship. She explained the issues that have happened to her in the past, including

Speaker 3

in the late eighties when I went through a divorce. It was very uncomfortable to be divorced.

Speaker 2

How social media is affecting relationships today.

Speaker 3

Currently I see a lot of couples that are angry about social media. I don't think it's important to reinforce as we did a clients. You're only seeing one side. This is not a fully disclosed lie, but you're not going to see it there. I had a fight with my spouse last week and the kid ran away. You're still the car kind of thing. The importance of going through hard times, strengthen a relationship, going through those tough times and realizing they're ours. They're not yours or mine. You know we're gonna work through this together because we are a family

Speaker 2

and the importance of continuing going out on a date.

Speaker 3

Sometimes I think that we also lose sight of each other by not spending that date night together. Let's get started.

Speaker 1

Hi and welcome to make love not war. This is Tara Harrison, a licensed professional counselor and relationship expert. This is her husband, Jeff Harrison. Have no qualifications whatsoever. Just a normal dude today. We have gay Kelso with us. She's a licensed clinical social worker and she specializes in working with families and we're going to talk to her today about establishing trust in a relationship after one or both people in the relationship has been through one or more divorces and I think a lot of us struggle with this. So welcome. Gay to the show.

Speaker 3

Thank you for coming. Nice to be here. I appreciate you asking.

Speaker 1

Well, one thing I always love to start off with is hearing your story. I know that have, how many years have you been married? It's 31 now. Thirty one years to, to your husband. And so you've had an amazing, amazingly successful relationship. And, but before that you did have a previous relationship where you were, you were divorced. So this is a topic that's near and dear to your heart. Things that you've worked with

Speaker 3

through your current relationship. Blended families are always a challenge and um, it's important that couples go into it, open minded, having had worked through things in the past that could be triggers. Sometimes that doesn't happen frequently. It doesn't happen, but it's important to work through those things and then to be able to talk about them and to be able to move forward because trust is a choice that we have to make it a new relationship.

Speaker 1

Oh, so true. And I, I was reading a quote by John Gottman and from his book the science of trust, I think it's called, but he talks about how trust is an action. It's not so much a feeling, but it's an action. It's something you do every day. How did you feel that, that process for you, is that something that you had to do is have an action of, of creating that trust?

Speaker 3

It was an action. Like I said, it was a choice and I had to choose to let go of what had happened in the past and other relationships. Not just marriage but other relationships because you bring that baggage forward. We both did and we both had been married before I was the only one with children. But when you have children, it's important that you choose someone that's safe and trustworthy to be around your children. That was the most important thing for me.

Speaker 1

Yes. So the, the first choice that you made was to know what you needed and finding somebody to be safe and trustworthy so that you could build that trust with them. So first and foremost, it's, it's about making sure that you know, what kind of choice you need to make for yourself and your next relationship.

Speaker 3

Absolutely. Not only does that person need to meet our basic criteria for, um, character traits in a relationship, but it also needs to be someone that is willing to allow the children to grow their trust towards he or she either way and to come slowly towards them. Not overwhelming. Most kids have other parents, they have a dad or a mom and having a step parent, which we don't like to use that word in our family. We really don't. But in the beginning that's what it was. And it quickly just turn to, that's my dad or that's my mom. Yeah.

Speaker 1

And I've heard that from, um,

Speaker 3

from families that have blended families, this use of the word step parent and how it has this negative connotation. What, what did it bring up for your family using that word or not using. Why did you choose not to use it, I guess is really the question. In the late eighties when I went through a divorce, it was very uncomfortable to be divorced and to be a divorcee with children. There were times of unacceptance by people in the community, people in the church, and to me it symbolized brokenness and I didn't want my children to feel broken. I wanted them to realize that even though it was the three of us, we still were a whole unit and that we would choose carefully together as appropriately who would come into that unit and hopefully complete and compliment our unit because we were not broken. I love that concept.

Speaker 3

And also involving the children and empowering them in this process that they, that they do have choice in this matter and how they feel really matters to you and it's, you know, it's more of a democratic process and everybody gets to choose. Well, they didn't get to meet him for a long time. And that's another good point. Yes. Oh goodness. Um, it was kind of a fast courtship to be honest. It was one of those where we knew pretty quickly on by about third date that this is pretty serious material for both of us and um, it was probably a good two to three months of dating regularly before the kids met him. And he went very, very slowly. He backed up. He allowed them to come to him. Um, he was a good listener, but not overwhelming. And they appreciated that. One of the first ways that they learn to trust him was that if he said he would do it, he would follow through with.

Speaker 3

So that's that action of trust. My goodness. It was so powerful to them. You know, you say you're gonna go outside and play ball with me when and they never even had to say, come on, let's go. It was like, Hey, well it's time for us to go play ball. And that was really important because that showed them that he was trustworthy and it showed you too. Absolutely. I was a mama bear. I still am, but not as bad. Knowing how somebody is there for your children is as huge for trust with parents. If, if he was there for you and and having all those wonderful connections individually between the two of you, but wasn't willing to embrace your children as well, then that would have been because sometimes that was a deal breaker. Oh, you have children. Oh, you have an x? Yeah. You know, that's what single mom means.

Speaker 4

Can't handle it.

Speaker 3

There's the door because I'm not going to try to fit my life into years. It needs to be the other way around because after a divorce and the suffering that everybody goes through with that, kids need to feel safe and secure and when they're young like mine war, they had to know that they had consistency and stability with whoever they met. Yeah, and knowing that your kids feel safe and secure, helps you feel safe and secure in the relationship as well. Absolutely. You know, one of the things that a Stephen Covey said, he said, trust is the glue of life. It's the most essential ingredient in effective communication. It's the foundational principle that holds all relationships and when we first got married we were blending into opposite lifestyles and houses and everything. That was when we both had households. So we laughed. Now we laughed a little bit then, but not really.

Speaker 4

Who's rob

Speaker 3

work is going to go up? What furniture is going to be kept, who's dishes for almost 30 years. We had two drawers full of silverware and you can pick his drawer drawer.

Speaker 4

That's so funny. So how did you decide to give up a drawer and who's drawer was it? His Dad and she needed silverware. Tightwad. So his William, she was proud to get it. So that was fun. Exactly. And that's something that he could give to her. And so

Speaker 3

again, furthering a connection between child and parent. Absolutely. She is the daughter that we adopted together. So we have grown sons and then we adopted one at three and uh, so he was able to parent early on. He just didn't want the diapers. So perfect. That was perfect age girl potty trained. It was like, okay, we can do that, we can find that. And that was a huge trust decision to go into was not taken lightly to say the very least year relationship had to be really strong and you had to have build that trust and it to go through the process of adoption. I mean even just that process is really arduous and it can be super stressful for couples. So we laugh about the little things that will terrorists into a disagreement. The big things, the concrete things, the foundation of our relationships are things we never struggled with.

Speaker 3

We were raised somewhat similarly. Same values, same belief system. And that created such a strong foundation that um, we really were able to grow upon that and then work through the little things. He now has his own man-cave Jeff, his artwork is all in that room. That's great. I love it. So you figured out where to put that artwork? It was a gift. It's a gift. It's funny because my whole kitchen is sunflowers and it's something that my mom and my grandma had given me all of the sunflower stuff and everything. And so jeff was like, whenever we, we combined our things, he was like, The sun flowers have to stay in the kitchen and none in the bedroom, right? Not a sunflower to be seen. It's wrong, you know, one of the things, um, for some reason clay was 10 when we get married, our oldest and at the wedding, he freaked out, wouldn't walk me down the aisle would even go in the wedding. So Kyle, the eight year old walk me down the aisle and um, it was interesting because at the reception he ran away in North Dallas. I had no idea kyle did or clay clay. And when my cousin found him, brought him back and he said,

Speaker 3

said, why did you run away? And he goes, he told me, he said, mom, you don't need me anymore. And I said, what? And he said, will you have a man of the house now? Someone had given him the idea that he was the man of the house. And I said, no, you're my son. And then I tried to explain because he was learning about sex, how that we were going on a vacation, not a honeymoon, just a vacation. Well, I thought families went on vacations together. You're like, oh, okay, here's another layer to explain more in my wedding gown with this big kid laying on me bawling and you know what my husband said, then y'all will go with us. Wow. They want to our honeymoon with that sealed the deal with. Oh my goodness. They told everybody that we have been more now.

Speaker 3

It was great. We had a great time and then we had a real honeymoon later. I'm glad you bring up that point too, because it's so important to know that for the kids to know that the, that the unit of mom and dad is solid, they are what their needs and their opinions are valuable. But your time is still sacred. Absolutely. Because that's the role model back at my own family. And that was the role model. You know, we didn't have a lot of money, but we didn't know it. We had as much as everybody else did and we all pitched in and did vacations, camping and it was not glamping either and we just did things on a weekly basis, but it was a strong unit and that created trust in other adults as well as my parents and I wanted that for my kids. Yeah, it was important. Those are other. Those were those other little benefits that you get a trust is knowing that you can count on that person to be appropriate and willing to do the things that need to be done for the whole but yet will take the time to be with you and just focus on you. Well, and I hear you making another really good point is that trust goes through generations.

Speaker 1

If you have trust in, in your parents and their relationship, then you can bring that into your family. Um, but also at the same time, if you don't, you can create it which will create trust for generations to come. So you can break that cycle. If you know you're coming from divorced parents and your interrelationship, that doesn't mean that you're going to create the same kind of situation for your children. Even if you go through a divorce, you still take the steps that you took to make sure that that trust goes through the generations and so your kids have families now and they're, they're continuing that.

Speaker 3

Absolutely, and both sets of, we've got the, the two biological sons and their wives. Everybody comes from a divorced family and we're all able to go to functions together, have some holidays together, enjoy that time where the grandkids can realize it's all about family, doesn't matter whether they were wrongs in the past. Things are good now, and our goal is to keep that family as strong as possible. Let them feel that support and that is really important because they need to be able to continue to trust in the future as well. What's their connection with their dad? They have a good relationship with their dad. They've worked together, they play together, they golf together. Um, it was um, a little bit rough in the beginning, but everybody was trying to find their own footing. He was in a new relationship. Eventually I got into a new relationship, but the relationships have grown and it's been good to be able to introduce their mom as their other mom. I don't introduce her as their step mom. It's this client, Kyle's other mom and um, and then they introduce their dad and this is my other dad. It's great because we all bring different strengths and weaknesses obviously to the relationship, but they know who to go to for different things. You can ask them, but I think that they would say that it feels balanced and normal, whatever normal is

Speaker 1

because you have this community that you've created within the family.

Speaker 3

Exactly. Or that's been a blessing. It's not always easy and it's easy to get your feelings hurt, but we have to look at the big picture of what is the most important thing. And it's always about the whole. And that goes from our generation on down.

Speaker 1

Well, and like you said, it isn't always easy and so it is a choice every day to do the work on yourself and in your relationships within the family community to keep the trust going every day.

Speaker 3

Absolutely.

Speaker 1

So I want to shift a little bit and ask you some clinical and so I'm wondering as a clinician, what do you see are the most common themes people struggle with in establishing trust and current relationships after being through a divorce?

Speaker 3

You know, as a clinician, it's, it's interesting because I know you see this frequently. I feel like sometimes therapy for couples as a last ditch effort and that's heartbreaking because I mean I'm glad that they're there obviously, but I wish they would come in before it gets to final check in the box before we say call it quits. And I think complacency is where it begins. We get comfortable, we get in our groove, we get busy with our lives and you know, when children come along, we get busy with them, our families, our own hobbies and we forget to make that person an important piece of our life and to let that build as a we instead of a n I.

Speaker 1

So that's good. That act of trust is being active every day and making that person a major part of your life and letting them know that their priorities are also yours and they are your priority.

Speaker 3

And you know, as a, as a therapist sometimes I come home and I've heard people talk all day and I don't want to talk and so jim has learned I need about 30 minutes of quiet time to just kind of chill and let it kind of empty out. And so then I can start refreshing myself and we're good about having our own hobbies and doing our own things. But we love our time together. He's a cook. That's his big gift and that something that relaxes him, which is fine. Cleaning up dishes relaxes me. And so one of the things that we've always done with our family and with friends is we gather in the kitchen and we talk and we sit and we share, it may be 15 minutes, you know, if it's a busy week day or it may be an hour or more. But we really cherish that time, our kitchen tables worn out and I love it because every scratch and scar has meaning in it because that's where we gather

Speaker 1

so that the gathering and maybe the lack of gathering is something that people struggle with a lack of making the effort to make that connection. What about, um, so something that, that jeff and I went through because he was married before, um, before we got married and when we got into our relationship, when it got to the point of, had been a few years and I was like, okay, I'm ready to make this marriage commitment. And he, he really had to work through some stuff to be able to, to get to that marriage commitment because he had made it before and it didn't work out. And I really with resentment about that. And I wonder if you see that come up with couples and and what kind of advice do you give the person who is needing the commitment or wanting to commitment and the other person's struggling to make it because of past hurts? What kind of advice would have you, would you have given me at that time that might have helped me deal with that recent?

Speaker 3

I think timing has a lot to do with it in patients of allowing that person to come to the same place when they're ready. Not Pushing our coercing but allowing them to get to that same point where you are. I don't know about you, but patience is not one of my virtues. Yeah. And I'm just ready to jump on it. Let's. Hey, let's get it going here. I'm ready to do it. Let's get it done. And, and Jim takes his time. He always has always will and he processes. He has more of a engineering type mind and mine is definitely the right brain and you know, I'll fly by the seat of my pants, drives him crazy. But I find that not only do we get complacent, but we get distracted in our marriages by other things that really are not a priority currently. I see a lot of couples that are angry about social media, so thankful that wasn't around when we first got married because that can be a big distraction and it also can be damaging to trust.

Speaker 3

And tell me more about that. How is social media damaged unit interesting. Because some couples just go into it and just point blank, put both of their names on like a facebook account and that's, that's how they keep that reminder out there. Other people will do their own and then they share their passwords. So that creates trust. Here's my password, this is what it is. But when there's nothing that has happened to cause distrust than I think it starts chipping away at that connection when someone wants to constantly be looking, let me have your phone, let me look at your phone when there's no reason for that. And I think it starts creating that friction and then it can slowly start chipping away at your connection with each other.

Speaker 1

Yeah. So for instance, if in this situation that are brought up with me and Jeff, if I had been worried because he wasn't making that commitment that there was somebody else or you know, the, that you know, there was just something else going on and I had been checking his phone and needing to look at his facebook and following his posts and did he like this or like that and who did he comment on and all of that kind of stuff that, that would have really set us back.

Speaker 3

Absolutely. And I think it would have kept him from being able to come forward and make that commitment to you because he saw some warning flags perhaps. Yeah.

Speaker 5

It sounds to me like a lot of the stuff that you're talking about gay is real similar to what we didn't just start last podcast, the resistance where we talked about how sometimes it just literally just takes time for the other person to process the whole new idea of whatever it is getting married or like we were talking about a podcast or whatever the situation is and you're almost just given it some time. So that it is the other person's idea.

Speaker 3

Exactly. They need ownership. They need a right to be part of that decision, but to do it when they're comfortable,

Speaker 5

but if they're doing something like looking at their facebook or any social media thing and they. Every so often they bring up, hey, why did you do this? Why'd you do that? Then it's just like, it just pushes it back even more like they start to go forward and then something like that happens and they go, well maybe I am doing the right thing by not getting in a relationship.

Speaker 3

Exactly. That starts feeling like control and none of us like to be controlled by another person. We shouldn't have to be controlled. If there's a question about control our trust, why are you in the relationship to begin with? Good point. And again, it's making a decision, a choice to trust.

Speaker 5

Have you seen any positives from social media or they're like, wow, I was just so grateful that they were on facebook and I could follow all their stuff.

Speaker 3

I've learned so much

Speaker 5

about them or something through social media or is it just all nonsense?

Speaker 3

No, I love social media. I mean there's good and bad. The part that I love is that I can keep up with extended family and friends and know what's going on in their life and share those moments. We have friends that had children at the same time. We had children years ago out of state and I can keep up with them and their grandchildren. Uh, recently we had a dear friend that I grew up with that almost died in Siberia. Oh God. And he was in a coma for three weeks. And so we were able to. He was, she was, his wife was over there by herself and I didn't grow up with her, but yet steve was our connection. It was amazing to see the prayers from all around the world that we're going out for him. Uh, the malaria affected his brain and that the doctors had basically said, you need to tell your husband goodbye. Wow. And now he's in Rehab. He's back here in the United States. And so that created such faith and trust in mankind. I don't know that his wife would know me if I saw her outside of, of facebook, but it gave me a way to connect with her and I used to babysit him, you know, watched him grow up. My Gosh. Wow. So there are times where it can be a really good support system, but like everything, people misuse it. Yeah. Teenagers have a tough time with social media.

Speaker 5

You know, since we're talking about social media, I just have a question for both of you. I, uh, you know, there's, this week there actually was a couple of celebrities that committed suicide. And through that I heard something that they were saying that since year 2000 suicide rates have gone up, something ridiculous in the United States, like 30 percent or something. It just so happens that social media has been coming on board from the year round. Roughly 2000 till now. Do you think there's any connection at all

Speaker 1

with that? That's a tough question. Yeah. I would say, um, it's hard to make it say that there is an exact correlation. But what I see with, with the people that I work with that become obsessed or addicted with social media is that it can be very disconnecting when you're always comparing yourself to the presentation that others make on social media, which often is just not our real selves. We Post the pictures at the highlights of our lives. We, you know, we put our best pictures on there, we put our best videos on there, all that kind of stuff. And so people often will look at other people's social, social media and feel like, wow, my life is really shit, you know. And, and that is where that perspective taking really comes into play of being able to have the connections to talk through that social media is not necessarily real.

Speaker 1

It's like reality TV. Yeah. And bullying. That's of course. And, and cyber bullying now, bullying is so much more accessible now. You know, when, when I was a kid, bullying happened at school and then you got to go home and have a break from being bullied. And I went through bullying at school. And so being able to go home and know that there was none of them could reach me was really nice, but then kids go home now and they continued to be bullied. And so yeah, I think that's a great point to bring up is that that you know, they, they just don't get a break. They're assaulted by it constantly.

Speaker 5

Yeah. So everybody else is living a better life than I am. And anybody I know is making fun of me.

Speaker 3

And I think it's important to reinforce as we do to clients. You're only seeing one side. This is not a fully disclosed life. People sharing what they want to share. Yes. Hopefully they're real and they can be transparent, but you're not going to see up there. I had a fight with my spouse last week and the kid ran away or stole the car. You're not gonna see those kinds of things. Those are the private side. But if you can use it for something that's positive, are supportive, are just fun. I mean, I'm not be having a really rough day and I can go look at some cat and dog videos and man, it just melts my heart. I get, I get happier. It helps me realize that there's a balance in life. Well, oxytocin there that oxytocin

Speaker 4

singing dogs. That's so funny because Jeff makes fun of me. He's like, Oh, you're on facebook again looking at babies and puppies and I'm like, hell yeah, cause I need some oxytocin now you know, it gives you a little

Speaker 1

good hit of that and so if you can use it for those kinds of purposes and know that you're looking at it, you're, you're getting that connection and you're getting the, the puppies and the babies and that's how it's useful. It's not a depiction of real life that I think that's really helpful. However you're talking about teens having a difficulty with social media, with their brains aren't developed to that point of realizing the full picture of it and what it really represents that it's not reality. Absolutely.

Speaker 3

Well, the key word here is media and everything. Immediate is so true.

Speaker 1

What whatever they want to present is what's presented. So, and I, I, you know, like anywhere before age 25, that's really hard to really grasp for a lot of people.

Speaker 3

And you know, one of the things that I really try to educate parents and teenagers on is that the frontal lobe of the brain doesn't fully mature for females until about age 25. And for boys it's around 30.

Speaker 4

Yeah. We're still waiting on Justin. Never grow up Peter Pan, but you know, it, it helps me feel better about all the mistakes I made in my twenties. It was like, okay, I didn't have a fully developed frontal lobe, but it's true

Speaker 1

because then I find with a lot of my early twenties clients that they're really hard on themselves about the mistakes they make and I'm reminded them like this, you know, I mean we all need to take responsibility for our actions of course, but also give yourself some compassion and knowing that this is part of your development and your learning by making mistakes and by having failures. And that's the best way to learn.

Speaker 3

My Dad used to call that character building windows. Is the character going to be built? This is getting

Speaker 4

it takes your whole life. That's true.

Speaker 1

So true.

Speaker 4

Let's take a moment to stop and take a quick break. We'll be right back.

Speaker 1

Do you look at your wedding pictures and wonder, how did things go so wrong? Have you given up on your relationship? Are you going to let what you've built together crumble to dust? If not, let me work with you to get your connection back on track. I'm opening my private practice up to a limited number of listeners that are serious about fighting for their relationships. Don't let your relationship, your family, your life fall apart because you let your pride holds you back from asking for help. Call me at six, eight, two, six, five, one, five, seven, five, two, or email me@makelovenotwaratGmail.com. Today, we can turn this around together.

Speaker 3

You know, one of the things when when we look at creating trust in a relationship is when when couples do decide that they can no longer make it work and they're going to separate, I really encouraged them to do some independent, independent work on themselves to be able to process what they've been through, own what they need to own except and hopefully forgive the things that were mistakes, but before you get into another relationship, deal with that junk. Yes, work on self esteem because a failure, we almost always just fall to the bottom and we're harder on ourselves than anybody else, and so take that time to rebuild yourself. Maybe set some new standards, some new goals, reestablish relationships that were lost and need to be refound yeah, but I think sometimes we feel like that we have to be in a relationship to be whole and we don't.

Speaker 1

That reminds me of something that Tara always says is to be 50 percent of a partnership, you must first be 100 percent of a person. Oh, that's a good one. I like that. Yes. It's a good thing to remind yourself because one of the quotes that I hate the most is from the movie Jerry Maguire where she says, you complete me, and every time I've watched it I'm like, you know, and it's the cutest. Maybe I love that little boy, but point is, is that no, no. The thing about being complete is that you're showing yourself that you're worthy of that, that you don't have to get your worth from someone else. You can give it to yourself and once you have that, you carry around with that with you forever. That's, that's yours. That's right. That's one of my favorite lines to discredit. When someone is depressed or there's been a breakup, it's you

Speaker 3

complete within yourself. You may be hurt right now. Build back up, let it give you strength and the the movement forward versus staying stuck. Yes,

Speaker 1

and knowing that you can do that for yourself is so powerful and it really when, when you're able to realize that and you're not looking for that validation from someone else. Now I'm not saying I don't want to discount the role of us validating each other because we definitely need that. That community is very important, but if you can validate yourself, you're not needy of it it then it's that what you're getting from somebody else's accomplishment. It's not a need that you have.

Speaker 3

Exactly, and it keeps balance so that the other person doesn't feel like they have to do more to balance you out. Yes. Two people to be balanced independently so that they can come together as one.

Speaker 5

Yes. I was always of the thought process that I was like, I don't really need anyone else as for a relationship, unless that other person can actually benefit me some way because I always felt like I was enough. Your mom did a good job then? Yes. Your mom would love hearing that right now,

Speaker 1

and I think that that's the hugest thing that people struggle with is realizing I am enough. In fact, I saw that tattooed on the back of a woman's neck.

Speaker 3

That's an awesome tattoo. Daddy. I love that.

Speaker 5

You know, but some people would almost think that you're just like, whenever I say that, that it almost comes across. They may think that you're just being arrogant or the church just being conceited to. Or

Speaker 3

they probably would welcome that invitation to discuss that tattoo when there's meaning like that. Usually someone wants to share that

Speaker 1

and I think, and Jeff, you do bring up a good point because there is that socialization and the message we receive of others before you and you know your worth is in what you do for others, not in who you are. And I think that that comes up a lot for when people feel resistance to that phrase, I am enough. It's because they're, they're so confused about, okay, it's more of what I do for somebody that brings my worth than who I am. So I'm really very big on telling my daughter, I love you because you are you. I use that with my clients as adults and that's really healing.

Speaker 5

Earlier you talked about how you thought it was a shame or that you're. You just don't like the fact that a lot of the couples will wait until it's basically nuclear option to bring the come in. If that's the case, when would you think is a good time to come in,

Speaker 3

you know, and just, um, I'm doing some premarital counseling now. The last couple that I saw, we dealt with some heavy issues, worked well through them. I felt like that they were on the same page and well prepared, but I saved our last session until a month after marriage and I said, let's save it for then and then I want you to make note of some things that have come up that have maybe triggered an argument or a discussion or discomfort so that we can look at what needs to be done. And then I would love to see the couple just kind of come in as needed when they need to just kind of talk through something or maybe a new situation that they're stuck on, needs to be worked about, worked with. And so knowing what those triggers are and things from the past will incite those memories that can cause us to react in a way that seems illogical to the other person, but yet if they're aware of what triggers us, it may be a. usually it is sensory,

Speaker 1

a sound, a smell, a taste or touch, something that is not comfortable. And then just give a brief explanation of why. So that person knows, okay, note to self, I won't do that again. Or if it happens, what I've found is that sometimes those things happen, right? And I found that couples who have been able to work out how to handle the triggers do really well together. Like for Jeff and I with things that would trigger me, he would learn that even if I was acting like I wanted to push them away, what I needed him to do is come towards me and give me a hug. And even if I pushed against them all, he was hugging me. We worked out like I need you to keep hugging me. And then I would relax and realize he safe that this is not about him, this is about something that has come up for me and he was able to help me with that. It gave him something he could do, which was really good for him and it gave me the space and the connection to work through my trigger and a lot of things.

Speaker 5

Triggers had I had nothing to do with like I had didn't know about it. It was from a long time ago. And if we hadn't talked about it, I would have no clue what was going on.

Speaker 1

Exactly. And when those come up just stop right then and say, hey, you know, that brings back a really tough memory for me. I just need you to understand why so that we can be open with it. And you were able Jeff, to pull her in in a comfortable situation so that you could, she could trust you to know that you are able to help her through this and work through. Sometimes in a crowd something will and the other will trigger us and the other person can say, hey, let's let's walk away for a minute. Let's go get a drink of water or a let's go get some fresh air, and I think the important thing also is that for people to understand who haven't been through a trigger, sometimes if a trigger is really strong, if it's trauma related, it will put someone into fight, flight or freeze, and so they can't be rational.

Speaker 1

Like you said. Some of the things seemed very irrational and so the ability to get out out of their head and back into their body, some connection of, of walking outside to get error. For me with Jeff, it was him giving me a hug, got me back in my body, okay, I'm in the present, I'm safe, I'm with Jeff. I'm not in this other situation was really helpful because then we could talk through it, so I think the understanding of the other person might not be able to talk about it right away, but there are. They being able to work. They're like, what do you need when you're triggered in order to help you feel safe so you can get to that point, and that gives us an internal relief of I've got someone that understands me and that will be there for me. Boy, that's a big trust builder. Oh, for sure.

Speaker 5

I got a question for both of you. Is there any relationship out there? Any that's together that it just runs smooth. They don't have to worry about communicating things. Just A, they don't have past issues that would cause a problem. Is there anyone out there that has that so that people, you know, that may be sitting there thinking, wow, I wish I had that. Is that attainable at all?

Speaker 1

Um, that you may find on social media and then you know, it's not real. What is normal to find normal? This is normal. I want perfection. No, not gonna happen because relationships are always work. Relationships aren't about being happy together. There are about growing together and you'll have moments of happiness and you're going to have moments of frustration. You're going to have moments of anger at moments of sadness and devastation. But you're going to grow together. That's the most important thing. If you expect that someone else is going to make you happy, you're always going to be disappointed.

Speaker 3

It's similar to the no pain, no gain with working out. If we don't ever test the waters and have conflict, we don't be. We're not able to grow as a couple and we're not able to fine tune and make our lives better for each other. So true.

Speaker 5

Yeah. That almost kind of reminds me of something that I read about the business model of Ikea and their furniture. If you haven't gotten the Ikea, basically what you do is you go there, you buy your furniture but you bring it home and you have to actually put it together. So you have to put all this work into putting it together. So what that ends up doing, they. They said that that wasn't just like an accident. They did that on purpose so that the people would have a greater connection with it because they put so much effort into actually building it. So whoever. Yeah. So do you. Is that what you're basically saying?

Speaker 3

Yes. Building and growing and working together. Some people are great at reading directions, others are not.

Speaker 1

Well, you know, I love the point you're bringing up because a lot of people, um, when, when you have a really tough time in your relationship or your marriage, see there, there are two ways to see it. One, you can see it as this awful time you're going through or this is another way you can see it as this is business potential and ability to connect. Last summer, last year, Jeff, you and I went through a really difficult time with your mom being sick and passing away. And, and it's just going through that. Yeah, there were some times where it was really tough for us and we were, you know, we were having to figure out schedules and, and we were having conflict around different things and everything. But just being able to work through all of that and the way that we showed up for each other through that man, that, that made us so much closer than we were before that, that difficulty that we all went through together. And it was a really tough time. And and now I feel like I can trust you even more seeing how you were there for your mom.

Speaker 3

That's great. Those tough times, illness and questioning and then preparing for loss and him being in the loss man, those are some of the deep valleys that we go through as couples and if we can't be there for one another, then when can we count on each other? Exactly. But that's a huge growth experience that in having a child together, whether it's through a natural birth or adoption or blended family, going through those tough times and realizing they're ours, they're not. Yours are mine. You know, we're gonna work through this together because we are a family. Yes. It's huge. So connecting sometimes I think that we also lose sight of each other by not spending that date night together and not making it a priority. One of my rules of thumb, and you may think this is crazy, but I tell people that they can't talk about their children in laws, finances, any of those hard subjects on the date.

Speaker 4

Because you wouldn't do that on a date if it was not something you weren't married to, and so the first time Jim and I went out and we would only be one date no more after that. The first time that Jim and I tried that principal after we had adopted our daughter. We set quiet. Both of us. We're not quiet. Fifteen minutes of silence. Oh my gosh. You're like, there's nothing else to talk about. What do I say? This is really important here. We need to find something to talk about and sometimes that becomes, comes

Speaker 3

the time where you can dream and set some goals are just share what's important. Compliment each other. Um, I liked the way y'all compliment each other on your podcast because it's natural and it's truthful, but it's so important to bring up the strengths of each other because we grow accustomed to it and expect it, but it sure does feel good to be complimented on it, especially by the person whose opinion meets the most to you. Absolutely. Absolutely. Another thing that brings up when you're not talking about all those things is having fun. When you're dating in that beginning part of dating, you have a lot of fun together and couples forget about how important it is for us to play together and have fun and so keeping those topics off limits really allows for that potential of just having fun and allowing ourselves to just be the two of us together and not having all the roles I talked about in another podcast. Having all those roles that we play in our lives. We can shed those and just have a good time. Absolutely. And just have fun. Be Silly. Yes. Remember why you fell in love with the other one? Well, and going back to trust, being silly is, is is a form of vulnerability because you're letting go and being

Speaker 1

able to be silly together builds trust and just, you know, like laugh really silly and make stupid faces and you know, all that kind of stuff like that. Those are things that we sort of lose as adults that we really need to be able to create a place where we can be silly and have fun together too. We can learn a lot from little ones. Can't wait. Yes, we can. Playing is important. It is a being an intentional

Speaker 3

is important focusing on the other person because if you have children, your children are hearing you. Be Intentional with Mama your daddy and they hear those compliments and then they see that that support and they know that even though mom and dad may not always agree on things, they love one another, they support each other and that trickles down to I'm loved and desired by these parents that love each other and the fact that

Speaker 1

having conflict doesn't necessarily mean something's wrong, that you can work through that and being able to work through conflict builds trust as well.

Speaker 3

Absolutely.

Speaker 5

Sometimes it's just hard to see the good stuff because you know it's easy to, you know, I, if I stub my toe, I, I noticed my toby and stuff, but the rest of my body feels perfectly fine. So that's what you focus on is what

Speaker 3

you know, your, your mind goes to, what you have versus what you don't have. As therapists. I know Tara for sure. I go home at times and until Jim, thank you. Thank you for being my husband. Thank you. That I can trust you. Yeah, because it's so. It's such a blessing to be able to not have to worry about certain things and to be able to sometimes realize how thankful I am for the parents that I had a the way that you know that I was brought up and loved what I hear. I feel so sad sometimes for people of what they did not get, especially in working with children that were adopted, come from hard places and they missed out on so much and that's heartbreaking, but going home and being able to have that soft place to land and to know that this is my safe zone. Yes,

Speaker 1

and you create that trust and the couple bubble in the family bubble and you know that you have an oasis where you can feel safe when you go home with that trust.

Speaker 5

Something I do every day in the morning, Kay, that you'll probably appreciate this, is I try to start the day with sort of an attitude of gratitude.

Speaker 1

Oh, good for you.

Speaker 5

And so everyday I write down, I'll take five things. That's just like things that I appreciate, but it can't be just something simple like audrey or Tara or just the normal stuff that everyone would say at Thanksgiving. It's appreciates me. It's the simple stuff. Like you may say, I love this piece of paper. I mean, that's awesome that this is here, this pin. It actually works. The highway system actually really works. Instead of worrying about like, you know, oh my gosh, there's traffic today. I can't believe there's traffic. It's like, well, I mean I live in a good city and there's a lot of people here that enjoy it just as I do or you know, the stop signs, they actually really work and most people don't get in accidents in. Um, so I mean just noticing the very little minor stuff that you go, wow, that's really, it will send the rest of your day where you'll sit there and go, well that really is neat that, that works.

Speaker 3

I liked that. I Love Your Journal. Thank you for showing that to me because I think it's important. And I, I had a made a note of journaling and I think sometimes taking the time to journaling what we're grateful for helps us to remember that that glass is half full and that we do have a lot to be appreciative of. I'm learning to appreciate the roundabouts. I hated them in, in the beginning because I'm not a good driver. I love them too. Well, not when they're not around, when they've got an edge on him that

Speaker 4

me, hey, you know, the edge. It's all about growth, right? Living on the edge and the tires are less damage to yes. But um,

Speaker 3

I think it's so important that we sometimes share what we've written in our journal so that we can process a different perspective because male and female brains are so different and I love the differences. There's times where I wish I had and I do work towards having more of a male brain because y'all are able to compartmentalize and to put things into a neat little box and shut it away. And I'm, I'm learning how to do that instead of being all over and being the gatherer. I think it's important to share and then get that perspective so that we can maybe see through another person's eyes. Yeah, and that really shows how when you have that trust, because you have to have that trust in order to open up and be vulnerable and share, then you really can complement your life, compliment the way that your brain works, compliment the your views on things and really open up your mind to, to your own personal growth by letting somebody else in and differences are okay. There's nothing wrong with different. You can, we can learn from that. Absolutely better.

Speaker 5

I think differences is, uh, is, is probably the best thing because I mean there's a lot of things that Tara does that is very difficult for me and then there's stuff that I do that's very difficult for her, so it's as if I just gained all these super powers that she has become together.

Speaker 4

I like that. I like that too. Superpowers and together you make a super couple with a power couple.

Speaker 1

Well, thank you so much for being so wonderful getting to talk to you and brought some wonderful insight about building trust and appreciate your time so much. Thank you. I've enjoyed this. As always, I welcome your questions, comments, and love for you to be on the show. If you're interested, please email me@makelovenotwaratGmail.com. You can also contact me via twitter. My handle is at terra harrison. You can also support us on Patrion www.patrion.com/make love not war. Thanks for listening.