"The Resistance" And How To Master It
Transcript
Speaker 1
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Speaker 2
In today's show, we talk about the resistance. What's the resistance you asked? It's when one person in a couple has a dream or desire and the other person does not. We discuss how to get to acceptance and then take it to the highest level, which is when both parties are all in. We hope you enjoy.
Speaker 1
Hi and welcome to make more love not war. This is Tara Harrison, a licensed professional counselor and relationship expert.
Speaker 3
This is her husband, Jeff Harrison. Have no qualifications whatsoever. Just a normal dude,
Speaker 1
really enjoyed the interview with Alicia and Shane we did last week and they brought up some really important points that I think that we can generalize to any relationship which was that someone had a dream, something that he really wanted and they had to go through the process of first herbing ample to accept his dream and understand his dream, work through her own resistance to it. Then be open to him pursuing the dream and then from that being all in on it and making it their dream.
Speaker 3
Yeah, I mean, I would say most people out there, it's anybody who's in a, in a marriage or a serious relationship. I think the furthest thing for them is to even think about having their partner dating somebody else or you know, even just swinging and all that kind of stuff. I think for most people that's pretty much out there on the furthest edge of a relationship and to get to something like that. It made me sit back after listening to their whole story, which was the first time I've ever even listened to somebody talk about it in that kind of detail, how they break it all down and to listen to that sort of me sit there and go, how in the world. I mean because a lot of the time they talk about how great their relationship was, how it made it better and all that, but I just sit there and I thought, how in the world can you get to the point that first of all you could even bring up the fact that you want to have a threesome or you want to bring someone else into the relationship. Then how does that process go to the next step and then it ultimately getting to the point that your partner is not only okay with it and think thinks it's all right, but is also setting there going, wow, this thing is something I really enjoy. So I thought that was. I thought that was fascinating and I thought it would be good for us to go into how in the world do they even get to that point in a relationship?
Speaker 1
Sure, and this can apply to any dream anyone has in a relationship. The first part of this process is being able to tell your partner your dream and this is a really difficult step. Obviously it has to happen in order for this whole process to get rolling, but when thinking about talking about a dream, it's a very vulnerable thing.
Speaker 3
I think we have a pretty good example on this. Whenever I first came to you about doing a podcast, do you remember that? Oh yeah. I remember the day about a year ago when you first approached me about doing this podcast. Yeah. I mean, I thought that this would be something you could do. I mean, I listened to podcasts all the time and I felt like you had a, a sort of a niche or a mission statement with your whole thing of helping guys out to learn more about how women think and how guys. I mean we just miss a lot of this stuff and it's not like there is no area out there where somebody can learn this stuff. I mean it's not as if guys are even talking about this and trying to help each other out. I mean, you know, and, and any knowledge or anything that I ever got from other guys was pretty much nonsense and yeah, I mean and it's not as if women are gonna step up and give away their secret weapons and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 3
I mean we don't, we just, there's just no place to go. I mean, not to say there's no place to go. I mean obviously people can go out there and, and there's tons of, I would almost call them academic style books and stuff that people could learn and everything, but none of it's sort of in the form of where you can sit down, listen to something while you're driving along and you can hear from a female's point of view the different strategies that actually work. And then also a therapist that actually has worked with countless couples and individuals and things like that. I thought that that was unique, so I really came to you and said, hey, what, why don't you just do a podcast, take the stuff that you know, and, and that was a well over a year ago now and after I brought that up, I mean it kind of reminds me of what Shane talked about in, in our series a inside a polyamorous relationship and a podcast and it just sorta made me sit there and go, okay, well even though these are two totally different kinds of things, but it really was sort of the same process that we went through.
Speaker 3
I sort of brought it up and I said, shut the front door. Exactly. And you just, all you did was come up with all these fears and things that were wrong. Yeah, I mean, what did you think? I mean, like you just think I was crazy.
Speaker 1
Well, I didn't necessarily think your idea was crazy completely. I felt like I don't think I can do this. And so you remember you saying, I don't think I can do this other stuff. Well that was a secret fear and that's the thing. That's why these fears that people have about other people's dreams or maybe dreams that you would have that would involve both of us, it may show up is I'm going to tell you all the reasons I can't. Practical reasons, which is what I did. I told you all these practical reasons like I, you know, I'm already really busy with my private practice. I already felt like I don't have enough time for our daughter, a time for our family, time for self care. It was all about time. I just don't have the time was my biggest thing for that, you know, and, but those things were all true and they were practical and that was part of it. But the biggest thing for me was I don't think I can do this. I'm introverted. How am I going to be able to handle knowing people are listening to my voice? Like it was a real vulnerable raw feeling and a fear of I'm not enough for this. Maybe.
Speaker 3
Yeah. And then so I mean basically what I did was, which is almost like exactly the same thing that Shane was talking about. His, you know, he brought up the fact of wanting to do a threesome and go swinger and do all this kind of stuff and then he sort of backed off and just let her have her space, which is really similar to what I did in this. I mean it's not as if we had this strategy on this whole thing, but if you were to have a strategy and you really wanted to break it down and get people to do stuff, why do you think that works? To have that time? Why did it work for you?
Speaker 1
Well, it really worked for me because I was thinking about your idea after you said it and I really needed the time to work through my own fears. I mean, obviously I never got to the heart of it until just now on this podcast with you. You didn't know what my real fear was about it, but I needed the time to be able to work through those and everyone works through them differently. Sometimes we needed to be able to talk to each other about it. Sometimes we need to work at their internally and then announce it on a podcast. I mean it, it really just kinda depends on the person, but what I really needed was the time and I needed you to not push me and I needed to feel supported while I was thinking about it. And the way that you did that for me was taking out the trash and.
Speaker 1
All right, what? So in order for me to have the space in my brain to really think about my dreams, I needed to in this kind of goes back to our podcast when we talk about how women can unleash the sexual beast. I need to be able to unleash my podcasting beast, I guess you could say, but I need to be able to make space in my brain to even be able to think of doing something like this. The fact that you were doing all those things that are a priority to me, like a big thing for us has always been taking out the trash and it's really been a priority for me. And so it's taken us a while for, for Jeff to see that that's my priority. I'm not trying to control him with my priority, but I just really needed done and I really makes me feel taken care of when he does it for me.
Speaker 1
I don't know why it's the trash, but that's my thing, man. It's the trash. I love it when you do it, when you take out the trash. So that really made me feel cared for and you know, just you doing all the things you do around the house and you know, just really having my back. Um, and for me it's doing the things because I'm definitely an access service kind of person. It's when someone's doing something for me, I feel taken care of. And so you were just continuing to give me the space you were in the background taking care of me, allowing me to have the brain space to think about it. And you know, what I did think about it and the fact that you didn't push me with it was huge for me because it needed to be. I needed to come back and make it my idea.
Speaker 3
Yeah, I can definitely see that. I mean, it's interesting that you talk about how needing to have, you know, it's almost like you just, if you're worried about all the little itty bitty things, you can't have the space in your mind to be able to go into a deeper thought process of something else. Uh, a dream sort of thing like to go that far out because you got to. I mean, you're worried about here and now trash right here, right now. And it's hard to think about something in the future that you're working towards. I guess that's, is that what you're kind of saying?
Speaker 1
That's exactly what I'm talking about. A lot of people are familiar with maslow's hierarchy of needs, which at the bottom it's like food and shelter and then it goes all the way up in the top is that need for self actualization. So that's Kinda what we're talking about is like we're very blessed to have food and shelter not be an issue. So once you go up from that, it's all those little micro things that kind of Niggle at you unless they get taken care of and you were taking care of those things. And so that gave me the ability to get up higher with my needs and tap into that. Okay, this is a dream that's just been brought up to me. It's not something that I've considered doing. It really pushes me out of my comfort zone. I really liked just being one-on-one or like myself with a couple.
Speaker 1
I don't even do family therapy because there's too many people and so that was a big stretch for me to even be thinking about doing something that was so out of my comfort zone. And so the fact that you were, you had my back, you were taking care of me, you are making my priorities of things that I needed to be done to be able to think about things your priority. It just really gave me that space and that was just huge. And so I felt then that I could. You could hold my hand through this fear even though I didn't tell you the fear. I knew you were with me on it. I didn't need to tell you in this instance. Really. I mean because you just showed me that support.
Speaker 3
Yeah. Okay. So I mean here he is just thinking back with him and us and so you give the space, you have the time to think about it. And then, I mean it wasn't as if you went, okay, yeah, let's all go do it. I mean there were still eating something else. You still needed to have something that would spark the thing to get it going. And we had something that came up that were. There was a contest for a podcast. I mean this just sorta came out of the blue. I saw it. I went, wow, okay. We've been taught. We talked about this over a year ago. We started going down this road, didn't do anything, didn't do anything, and I just sort of was like, hey, why don't we just go ahead and enter? Why not? I mean, it's not a big deal. We'll just do our follow the rules and we'll just put the thing in and and make an entry and even that you still were like, Nah,
Speaker 1
and I wasn't even like, now I was like, hell no. I just have too much on my plate. I cannot do it. And
Speaker 3
Yeah, not only that you've looked at, you went and looked at the rules and everything. I mean like you went into the details and you're like, Oh, if we win this thing, we're going to have to go to New York and we're going to have to do that. I'm like, well Gosh, talk about a high quality problem and we'll get to that and they pay for us to go to New York and they put all this support behind us. I mean these to me, that's not a problem, but you turned something that could be awesome into a problem.
Speaker 1
Yes, but you know what you did that was really helpful with that. Is there, there would have been there two ways for you to go about this with me is that you could have told me what you just said and negated my fears and just said you shouldn't think that that's, you know, basically that's stupid because this is an awesome thing to do. But what she did is you met me there and just let me have them that yeah, we were going to have to travel. What will we do with our daughter? Like all of the practical things which still went down to my fear of I don't know if I can do this, you know, so that was the core thing, but I was using all of these little, you know, like, and, and they were, they're valid but they're practical thing. So I was using all those to hide that.
Speaker 1
But you still met me there with that and you kind of held that with me and you held my hand with it and you still didn't push me and that was huge again, that you didn't push me. So I just want to give you props for that because I know that when you get excited about something, you're really excited about it, but what you did is you accepted the fact that the way that I work through things is that I usually come back with a, uh, a very strong know when you bring something to me and then I have to work through it and you have to give me time and then I come back with you with sort of a compromise and or maybe an idea of how we can do it this way and then we can work through it. So you did that again with me, but what we had to work through with my big heavy no first.
Speaker 1
And so that's what I want to talk about next. First I want to talk about how it takes what it takes to bring up that dream for the person bringing it up. Because even though we're in long term relationships and we have some level of trust for each other and all of that kind of stuff, still bringing up something that's really vulnerable. A dream. A dream is something you just really hold in your heart, you know, it's a wish your heart makes when you're fast asleep. That's Disney. But anyway, but it's true though because it is, it's something, it's something that we think of when we think of our dreams, his children and all that kind of stuff. It has magic to it and if you hold it inside you can, you can assure that the magic stays there inside, but then it doesn't get out and it's getting it from inside out. That really takes the courage and the vulnerability and sometimes you just have to jump in the cold water and start swimming. So what do you do if the other person is resistant? Well, I'd like to put that question back to you, Jeff, because in this example that we're talking about in our lives with the podcasting, I was pretty resistant at first and I want to know how you handled that. How did you get still give me that space even though I was really not accepting of your dream at first. I.
Speaker 4
No, you can't push too hard. I mean if I was to just keep pushing on something that I, that I want, then I know that's not gonna work and it almost just becomes a put your hand on a hot stove. I mean, how many times are you going to do that before you just say, I'm just not gonna do that for awhile and. But I had no idea if you're going to come to my way of thinking on this deal. I mean it's not like you come to my way of thinking on everything, so you just never know.
Speaker 1
Okay. Well, how did you internally work through letting go? Like if, if she doesn't want to do it, it's not going to be done. Or did you think, well maybe I can do this without her or what? What? What were your thoughts? Feelings?
Speaker 4
Well, I didn't think I could do it without you is. That would be crazy.
Speaker 1
That would be weird. But I've been in other people's dreams. This could be true. Someone could like. Well, the story of Shane Aleisha, he could have gone and done that without her. It would have been damaging to their marriage, but you know, sometimes people do things like that. So how did you keep yourself from trying to move forward with something regarding that? Because you could have done your own podcast about something else, you know?
Speaker 4
Yeah. Well I mean in this particular scenario it's not as if I'm just dying to have a podcast. I mean I just felt like you had a, a really interesting cool thing that needs to be out there and you know, and I'm willing to. And I mean I'd just throughout my life just understood that there are certain times you just, you can't just keep pushing, you just need to let it lie basically and let it fester into the other person's mind a little bit so that they can kind of, you know, make it, some people would say you want them to make it their idea. I don't know if that's really it, but you just sort of give it some time and then I would come back to it again. And then another thing and, and when we had the opportunity that came up with the contest, that was another good point for me to come back and go, yeah, but why?
Speaker 4
Why don't we do it? I mean like let's just try it. I mean, what, what do we have the lose? I mean cause I also just me personally have a much less resistance to failure. I'm not really that worried about it. It's because to me there really isn't any failure. And which is exactly the contrasts to you. You constantly have that fear in my point of view. Why? So I felt like you just didn't want to do it because you were just afraid of failing. And to me I was like well that's not a valid fear because it's just, that's not a thing. So. But that's me. I can't push that on somebody.
Speaker 1
Well, what I hear what you did though, as you did some perspective taking, you thought about what maybe my core fear was, which even though we didn't talk about it, you kind of figured it out and you let me work through it. So you did have a process, you thought about what my fear was. You say, okay, you know, that's her fear at stop mine and you let me work through it without feeling like you need to take it on and you need to fix it. That's what you did. Wow. I'm awesome. Good job. Even more awesome than you thought. So, you know, no. You know how great you are.
Speaker 4
Um, but for most people, what's the, what do you think this strategy? Like why do you think people. Why were you afraid of just telling me why, like what the real core reason was? Why didn't you want to do it? I mean,
Speaker 1
my biggest fear with telling you about my biggest fear was that you would not accept it. That leads me to the point of being able to know that you don't have to understand something to accept it. You can free yourself from the need to understand. So if your partner comes with you and they're telling you something that they really want to do something that is really important to them and it's not something that's important to you, it's not something even understand why they like it or anything like that. Often the first thought that comes into our minds is we need to kind of talk them out of it or convinced the not to do it. Maybe because your own fears are coming up there that it might not be safe or what is that? How's that going to affect me? Um, all kinds of things that you could be thinking, you know, that that would come up, that could be a hazard for them or yourself.
Speaker 1
So those things are brewing. And so the first thing that you need to do with that is have you go back to that internal self regulation we've talked about and be able to put that to the side and think, okay, I don't need to be able to understand the dream to accept it. And that gives you the freedom to start to be able to try to understand it. And then you can come at the dream with questions of curiosity. Let's explore that. What does history mean to you? When did you start having this stream? What do you think that will look like in our lives? So that's the beginning parts of the conversation of even being able to understand it. So that's when you're working through the resistance for the person who has the dream. There's also because it's so vulnerable and it's so raw and it's so exciting and it's so.
Speaker 1
There's so much magic and they're so scary and all kinds of things. You have your all your own feelings coming up. So the really important thing that the dreamer needs to do is to be able to put aside their defensiveness of would this person not accept the dream? And also come with curiosity and understanding when your partner starts to bring up their fears, you know, you've talked about the dream, you've realized what it is. Okay, you know where do you go from there? Right? And so that's usually when the partner spheres are going to come up. And a good way to think about fears is that when you, when you allow somebody to talk about their fears and give them that space for you to hold their fears with them, then their fear start to have less power. They they stopped being so consuming because number one, they have you with them holding their hand through it.
Speaker 1
And so they have that connection that gives them courage to face their fears. And number two, just saying something allowed just takes the power away from it. Think of it this way. The person who has the fear is holding a full glass of fear. And the listener, the dreamer is holding an empty glass. When the dreamer really connects with the listeners, fear what they're doing is allowing the listener to pour their fear and to their glass. So the. So the person with the fear now has less fear in the glass or maybe no fear in the class. It just kinda depends on where they are in the process. Because these conversations go on many. You have these conversations many times, so you may be just pouring a little bit each time. So very good, yes, pouring it and it's got to get empty before can you can move forward.
Speaker 1
So you're sitting in a. is that what you're trying to say or what I'm trying to say? So what happens when you're having these conversations, which usually happen over and over again and we did that too. I would bring up questions about podcasting because I was getting curious, but then I would also, as we're talking, I would start talking about my fears again with it and every time I did that I was pouring a little bit more of my fair into your class. Now what you did that was really healthy with that, with that is that you didn't hold my fear. You do that. My fear was mine. So every time after our conversation you were able to pour the glass out which gave you the freedom to not have to solve my fear. And so if you had tried to solve my fear, you would have just pushed me away.
Speaker 1
But what you did is you poured my fear out because you said I, no, that's not mine. And then I was able to keep. What fear I still had in my glass and upon the next conversation and ended a little bit more, you poured that out until we got to this point of, my fear is empty. Your glass is empty because you've poured it out every time and then we're getting closer to really exploring the dream together. To recap what I had to work through is I don't understand this. I feel threatened by something that I don't understand, but if it will bring me closer to the person I love and we both get something we want, then it's worship. Worth it to push through my fear to accept what I don't understand. That's what I had to work through and then I realized that it actually was something that I wanted to do whenever I was able to let go of all that fear.
Speaker 1
So the fear is almost like a cloud, that you're over your judgment to be able to even make a decision on what you want. Absolutely. And so to you, when we got to that point, when I came to you and I was like, okay, how about this? We'll just enter the contest. I'm not saying what we're going to do if we win. Was your idea? Yes. When I came here with that, right when it suddenly became my idea, it would. The reason I got to that is because we had those conversations over and over again. When I was able to get to a place of curiosity. Then you, you answered my questions. We explored it together and it Kinda went back and forth. Curiosity, fear, curiosity, fear. Sometimes both of them together, but you let me have both of those as my own curiosity and my own fear. I'm working through this process myself. You're working through your feelings about the dream while I'm working through my process and then we're coming together each time and so through that for me, I really felt like you were holding my hand through the fear and, and I felt closer to you after we came to this. Okay, I'm going to jump. I'm going to do it. And then the fact that we're doing it together is bringing us even closer because we have conversations like this.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I mean that's just like in our. With Alicia and Shane. I mean they, they went to the swingers club and they start to realize, hey, this is not so crazy, and then it goes a little bit more so you kind of have that stage where you know, somebody brings up the quote unquote dream of doing whatever they want to do or what they think they should be pursuing, and then you have the, the person who's throwing up the fear and throwing up the roadblocks and saying, no, we can't do it because of this. I can't do it because the money, we can't do it because of time. We can't do it because of. I mean everybody can come up with a great reason not to do something. I mean that's easy. I mean default is no, it's a lot harder to say, well we should do this because of this, you know, of something that we haven't even done yet. Like I'm going to jump off this cliff and it's going to be great because I'm not really sure because I've never jumped off a cliff.
Speaker 1
Yeah, for sure. And how powerful to be holding hands when you jump off that cliff together and, and touch the water together and swim.
Speaker 3
Yeah. So I mean now you've got and then you've got the, the swing that you know, you've gone through. And then was Alicia was talking about where it goes from, they're resistant to hey, let's look into this a little bit more. Maybe we should just take, you know, dip our toes in the water and we'll try this and everything. And then this change to be in just all in like that's an interesting thing as well that I found fascinating about their story, which is just almost exactly what we just went through.
Speaker 1
Sure. That's exactly what happened because it's earlier I talked and you said dip your toes in. And earlier I talked about jumping in the water. I mean you really have to be able to be willing to do that on both sides. So you were a jumper by putting the dream out there. And then I waited in the water and then once I got in I started swimming. But now we're both swimming together and what got us to what was going through that whole process of allowing each other to work through this, the way we needed to and continuing to touch base with each other throughout being curious about each other's needs, taking perspective of how you thought about how I might feel, what my fear was. I thought about what was behind your dream, which really was a dream for me ended up being one for us because we did of those things and we. We kept that communication line open not only with each other, but they had an internal communication where we're really needed to work through our own stuff as well. Then we're able to get to the point where you are where we're. We're doing these podcasts and I found after the first one, after I dip my toes in that I really loved it. It was super fun and I felt this creative high and I was like, damn, this is awesome. I want to keep doing this.
Speaker 3
Yeah, good thing you came up with this great idea. It was amazing. Yes,
Speaker 1
I am. I'm so glad. I thought of it,
Speaker 3
so what would you even, what would you call all this kind of thing that that people go through.
Speaker 1
This is just breaking through resistance and you know, I see this all the time in the therapy room, breaking through resistance and it's very typical for clients to have resistance to the process of therapy and the biggest skill that therapists can have is being able to embrace the resistance instead of pushing against it and to be patient with them, to be understanding of it and even to call it for what it is and normalize it because it is part of the process of accepting anything. It's the process of change and I found when I worked there, resistance with my clients and we both accept that that's the process and work through that together. That I feel more connected to my clients. So being able to be open to working through resistance together and working through fears together and just being tolerant of how each other needs to deal with these fears and being accepting of fears that may even feel threatening to you ultimately brings you closer. Not only together but also to yourself, so it's really a powerful process and it's the process that really, truly connected couples go through over and over and over again, and that's how they become super strong,
Speaker 3
so it's as if the fear or the quote unquote resistance is. It's like that's completely a wall that's making it so that they can't get past it to be able to get to the open fields on the other side sort of thing. They just and some people maybe even if they get over, they put another wall and another wall until they can finally get totally free, is that if they can't get free, they can't ever open up. The can never get to the point that they're working through the core problem and maybe some people don't want to get to the core problem because it's too painful.
Speaker 1
So true. But the process of being able to move through the resistance and through the fear. A lot of people talk about breaking down a wall and this process to really be able to establish the trust to get through that resistance and fear the wall needs to be dissolved. The way that you do that is through what we were talking about through this whole podcast or being able to have that acceptance. Being able to have that understanding, perspective taking, being able to work through your own feelings and not putting them on someone else and also being able to accept other people's feelings and no, they're not yours, but you can hold space with them to help them work through it. To recap, the process starts with the person who has the dream being able to work through their own feelings and state the dream and then the real work comes, which is the two, the two people, the dreamer and the resistor will call them.
Speaker 1
Working through back and forth. Having those conversations, understanding those fears, coming at them with curiosity instead of defensiveness and really trying to understand each other, giving each other the space to work through all of their feelings. Being able to fill each other's glasses with the fear and then unload the fear like we talked about earlier with the glass image and through that process you're dissolving the wall of the resistance and we also talked about the image of wading into the water, so as the walls being dissolved, the person's wading into the water. You have someone swimming through a wall, whatever, but metaphors. Mixed metaphors are always fun, but that's basically what's happening. Then what happens at the at the end, as you've worked through that process, which could take a long time for us, it took a full year, maybe more so once you're through with. Once you've made it through that process, then your bowl fall in and that's the acceptance phase of the change process. Both people have moved through this change. You've moved through it together, you've held hands wired while you're doing it, you feel strong, you're ready to go. You're ready to try the thing that you're afraid of, and then you try the thing that you're afraid of. You do it with each other and you make your connection even stronger,
Speaker 4
so it's almost as if once you finally get through all this stuff and if we're going to the swimming metaphor, it's not, hey, I dipped my toes into the water, into a swimming pool. If I dipped my toes into the water of an ocean and now I am swimming out into the ocean. It's not like there's any walls and now we both have to work together to get all the way across this huge mass of water to make it actually work. So once you kind of get into that sort of mindset that now it's like, hey, we're in the true deep end. We have to get through this thing. At this point we're in, we're all in. So it changes your mind. Like I don't see land anywhere, so you have to just push through it, like to move through it. Yeah. You can't. Yeah. You can't ever think about any of those other little details that were holding you back before. Now you're in, you're all in
Speaker 1
and you know sometimes when you're all in, when you're middle of the water, you still need a pep talk and work through those fears a little bit because they're going to come back up and that's normal, but you still have the other end of the shore to get to, so keep and you're there with each other. You're both doing it together so you're not alone. Sink or swim together. Yup. As always, I welcome your questions, comments, and love for you to be on the show. If you're interested, please email me@makelovenotwaratGmail.com. You can also contact me via twitter. My handle is at terra harrison. You can also support us on Patrion www.patrion.com/mate. More love, not war. Thanks for listening.